Mafia , the interview with Di Matteo : " Riina wants me dead . Politicians attack the investigation "The prosecutor says the boss , " It does not just threaten , ordered to kill me." The magistrate tells his life under guard and talks about the attempts by the institutions, to delegitimize the process on the negotiation between Cosa Nostra and StateMarco Travaglio | December 18, 2013Comments ( 270)Nino Di Matteo
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At 17.30 Nino Di Matteo , the prosecutor who wants Toto Riina is murdered at work in his office on the second floor of the Palace of Justice in Palermo. Say it is not disturbed , it would be too much. But he has lost neither his temper nor his smile. The determination that , even increased .
Dr. Di Matteo, what is your dominant thought after 15 months of threats and heralds of attack ?Trying to fully understand what's going on around me. Not everything is still so clear. A year ago, the first alternation of mafia-style threats and institutional source , I thought of something random . Then I became convinced that the attacks were linked . Now hear and see Riina say those angry words and those orders of death against me brings me back to the contents of one of the first threats that I was delivered anonymously .
The dossier of 12 folders titled " Ghost Protocol " , with the coat of arms of the Italian Republic , which warned her of espionage " men of the institutions " to a " central Roman " , warned her that he was on dangerous ground and forwarding cited politicians of the First Republic involved in the deal have not yet been touched by the investigation?That was the first message from institutional sources . But I was referring to the second , after the elections in February.
The letter received by March 26 , written to the computer by an anonymous self-styled " man of honor of the family of Trapani " announcing his disposal - as an alternative to Massimo Ciancimino - because Italy " can not finish governed by comedians and fags " ?That. He used a phrase book is typical of those who want to apply for accreditation as belonging to the institutions or to investigative apparatus . And speaking of the decision to kill " sought by Roman friends of Matthew," that is, Messina Denaro , also endorsed by the prison by Riina " by the child." Now that I have listened to the voice of Riina I understand the connection between the two types of threats: the Mafia and the institutional or quasi - institutional . And I took the underestimation made ​​of it , perhaps in good faith , ignorance, many newspapers and at political level .
Underestimation ?Everyone is talking about the threat of Riina . But threaten someone means wanting to scare you. Riina , intercepted in prison , does not just threaten me : his is a crescendo of angry words that culminate in the order to kill me. So much so that prosecutors in Palermo and Caltanissetta have used a great tool provided by the Code for " desegretare " han interceptions and he delivered the transcript and the audio-video support to the Interior Minister Alfano. Talk about "threats" is incorrect and misleading.
I do not want her to argue with the highest offices of state , but just say this , after a year and a half of awkward silences and awkward : solidarity with the judges threatened by organized crime.For charity , solidarity with all the judges threatened by organized crime is right : the threat of the mafia are always serious matters. But the Palermo magistrates investigating the negotiation state - mafia are a special case: here the number one mass murderer of the last thirty years has given the order to eliminate us and so the strategy to relaunch mass murderer , suspended twenty years ago with the Pax Mafiosa long followed the negotiations.
What is your mood these days?It is a complex of moods. If I look around and reflect rationally , I tell myself that it is not worth and not worth sacrificing , in twenty years of life escort , many important moments of freedom and carefree and my people who are beside me . But luckily the prevailing passion , as in so many of my generation judges . When I entered the judiciary 22 years ago , I did it right with the aspiration to deal with the Mafia. My point of reference was the mafia of Chinnici pool , Caponnetto , Falcone and Borsellino. Three out of four we have unfortunately accompanied in the grave, but that's been my imprinting .
So the passion is still prevalent ?Yes, and the best on pure rationality that would advise you to drop everything . The passion for the beauty of our work. But that does not erase the knowledge that to be a magistrate in this way - the only one I know by reading the Constitution - " does not pay " . Either in terms of personal serenity , nor career , nor appreciation of homogeneous by the institutions and people who represent them, and also by important pieces of public opinion. But never mind, let's move on .
Before the massacres of '92 was palpable in Palermo impatience with the anti-Mafia magistrates , stocks, the sirens , the areas of forced removal , the dangers caused by the presence of judges at risk. You breathe that air again ?No, rather the intensification of threats to my person was paradoxically accompanied by a surplus of solidarity and friendship of so many citizens : letters, emails , words of encouragement. Even the neighbors . It is one of the biggest and rare reasons of comfort. The same applies of course to my family : I'm lucky to be surrounded by people who share the same values ​​that ideally are the basis of my commitment . Let us go forward , albeit with great difficulty.
How has your life changed in recent months?You never have to repeat the same movements and the same paths , you have to make the most possible unpredictable. You are forced to give up even small ones and a few things that you still concedevi before , even escorted . But this is not what I weigh .
What weighs the most?The awareness that when you forward on some ridges investigation on the relationship between mafia and institutions (not only those policies , but also the so-called " equipment " ) , listen - to put it mildly - not to be understood by those who represent the state and even by large sectors of the judiciary. Too many people still think that our investigations are a waste of time , resources excluded from the "real fight against the Mafia ," which would consist only in stopping the criminal laborers in seizing drug loads . Instead , today more than ever, a contrast to the serious crime must sever its ties with institutions, politics, finance , law enforcement, equipment .
In words , say it all .Yes, but then it just takes a few pm and maybe we can , here is the usual chorus of giggles and full of doubts scattered at random : do you feel held up to public ridicule as a " Cloud-hunt " , or worse as a person who works against the destabilizing scalfirne institutions for the prestige . There are those who still repeats the refrain that , uncovering the deal , we've done you a favor by putting Riina accused men of the State and politics. Riina , to hear him speak , it does not seem to think so . On the contrary : it manifests in us a furious rage , that he even wants to translate in my murder.
He wondered why Riina 's got so much and just with her?No. But I see that I am busy and often long process that saw him accused: I was on the massacres of Capaci pm , in Via D' Amelio , the assassinations of judges Chinn and Lightning and other killings in Palermo .
Nevertheless, Riina , for those processes , he had never experienced the fury against her. Exploding for the negotiation .With the release of Ingroia , I am the oldest and longest follow those investigations. So the anger I did not explain it otherwise .
Yet , the documents that you have filed so far, not a reason to justify it captures so much anger . To the chagrin of Riina should not look like the superstragista that has devastated the state. Do you doubt that you have not yet figured out all that is accessed , but which he knows well?No doubt the certainty . So far we understand and we believe we have tried only a part of what happened . It is no coincidence the timing of the intensification of this pressure . Initially it was thought that the inquiry would end in the archive. But then there was our request for indictment and then the order of committal for trial of the preliminary hearing judge . And the process has begun. But it is not a mystery that we are continuing to investigate : we do not stop certain to try to prove the guilt of the current defendants. We want to find someone who has handled them , led them and the competition with them, outside of the Cosa Nostra, in the crimes that we have objected . With whom , why, and on behalf of those who are current defendants have done what they have done . That's when it became clear that we do not stop , matches are not only threats and orders of death, but also dangerous occurrences such as breaking into the house of the young colleague Roberto Tartaglia .
You represent the state, but also those who have made the deal and who is threatening you or do anything to hinder you . How many states are there in Italy ?The State is only one: one designed with clarity and precision in the Constitution. To be credible and recognized as such, the State should not be afraid to try themselves, through their representatives infidels , collusion , rerouted . Otherwise it has no title even to process the crime, organized or otherwise.
Never had a doubt to be you , deviants ?No, not even when we pointed out as such, as having different interests from justice and constitutional legality . Of course , there is a palpable feeling of being deviant compared to the widely shared feeling that would impose a particular " caution " because scoperchiamo certain vessels . But on that negotiation is one of the few investigations that have suffered attacks from virtually all political parties , at least they can not accuse us of wanting to promote at the expense of another .
What is the charge that has hurt you the most?That authoritative exponents of journalism and politics that we give even the purpose of blackmailing the head of state , just because we stumbled upon some of his phone calls with the former minister Mancino, or why we called as a witness . It is the heaviest and unjust accusation , but we had to endure this too.
That story has dragged all of you before the View and she and her boss Messineo the CSM . You have the feeling that the double -legitimization has taped over your mouth to those who maybe could cooperate fully with investigations ?Post so the question is difficult to answer. Let's say that the Mafia turncoats still think with the instinct of the typical mafia if they understand that you have in front of pm attacked by the institutions, sniff that talk about certain topics might be cumbersome and inconvenient for them . And maybe someone who knows a lot of things came out of the ordinary canons of "normality" , revealing only what does not shock the system too , and therefore does not prove too damaging for him.
She is always under disciplinary proceedings to the CSM ?Yes In March I was notified of the act incrimination , accused of having infringed the prerogatives of the head of state with an interview in which I explained the procedures for the destruction of intercepted phone calls between him and indirectly Mancino. I've already been asked and now expect the Pg of the Supreme Court decides whether to ask the CSM to condemn or to annul the marriage . In what appears to me and to my defense , this is the first time you exercise disciplinary action against a magistrate for an interview. But , if I am indicted , I will defend myself with serenity , well aware that he had only done my duty and have not violated any law or rule. As my office has already done - unfortunately with the results known to all - Check in before the conflict of powers raised from the Quirinal .
See also the Public Prosecutor 's claimed that he only obeyed the law.Sure, and the proof was in fact : it was not the first time that a public prosecutor , intercepting a person involved in the investigation, casually He understood his conversations with the President of the Republic. It happened in 1992 in Milan by President Scalfaro . And it had happened in 2009 in Florence with Napolitano. In both cases , the prosecutors had to transcribe phone calls and had filed the proceedings. In the case of Scalfaro the newspapers had reported . Yet the Quirinale did not raise any conflict against the magistrates . He did so only with us in 2012, although we did not transcribe those conversations criminally irrelevant , we kept in the safe, and we explained that we would have called for the destruction . Bitterness for what happened , however, join a satisfaction, my staff and my colleagues : our closets scassatissimi showed a tight , in fact, those calls are not leaving even a syllable. No one can blame us for not having done our duty to the best of judges .
What did you think when the Committee for Public Order and Security has proposed to turn to Palermo on board a tank Lynx ?At first , I did not know what it was. I saw the picture on the Internet of a Lynx used in the war in Afghanistan and I said no . Besides unthinkable from the standpoint of practical and logistical support , a judge who has to move to the edge of a tank becomes too ridiculous. And if there's one thing I can not accept is that my work is being put in a position to lose respect . Security can not be an excuse for the many who look with hostility to our commitment to put us to shame . All other risks accept them : not that.
Also discussed was the use of a robot anti- explosives , the " Jammer bomb" . The state is doing everything he can to ensure his safety ?I never asked for anything : there are authorities in these technical decisions and are working with the utmost professionalism. Beginning with the police of my stash . But a judge is safe especially when all the institutions to show totally united in affirming that his work - however regrettable - can not face threats or advertisements massacre. The reaction across the state compact would be the best protection for me and any other officer in danger.
And that reaction compact for now there has not been .So far it has only arrived in dribs and drabs , very slowly , effort and reticence. But do not despair that you arrive one day or the other ...
by The Daily of December 18, 2013